66 replies to this topic

[NippyFanNy779]

you know the more I think about the results that people are waiting for it can't help but weigh on me that ...its not going to bring her back. No matter what took this angel from us she isn't coming back. We can hash out the details til the end of time but our Whitney, our Greatest Love of All will still be gone.

I just don't feel like I can focus that much energy on why, I'm still trying to cope with the fact that she is.

[Steplejack]

I still cant believe she is gone

[Nippyislove]

Every1lovesNippy, on 08 March 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Lisa, on 08 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

During the Oprah interview, Whitney said she was not an alcoholic. She freely admitted to her addictions, but she denied that. She had no reason to lie. I believe the words out of her own mouth.

Regardless of what the results show, even if it turns out that there was alcohol in her system, it still doesn't make her an alcoholic. I'm tired of people like Dr. Drew and various newspapers acting like she was an alcoholic when SHE SAID she was not.

Peace out.

Yes, Lisa, but there are those who would rather disregard the more receint Oprah interview and, instead, quote the 10 year old Diane Sawyer interview (smh). I must admit, I find this selective use of quotes to be interesting, especially since she told Diane that she used various things "at times," which is by no means an admission to an addiction to everything. I think the misconceptions, distortions and lies that hounded her really took a toll on the quality of Whitney's life. So, I really wish people would just try to be objective for a minute -- at least until the coroner's report comes out -- and hold off on the rank speculation. Even if the media and casual music lovers won't cut the speculation, her fans should.

Addiction has such a big stigma in our and many other societies of the world so that there are myriads of not very helpful or even harmful "treatments" existing. You can find cults like scientology or others in this fields . Then there are these isolating therapeutical communities, where you live for years and years and being totally dependent on these communities - often you do hard work work there (often on farms) basically for nothing or a little bit of pocket money. A lot of them are still using the "synanon-game" as "therapy", which is basically yelling and screaming at each other, hurting and humilliating.(These communities also existing here on the other side on the pond in Europe), Then there are in the USA the dominating 12-step treatment centers - alternatives (like SOS, Smart Recovery, Women for sobriety etc.) are existing but hardly promoted and often not known.

Especially in the USA there are Boot Camps/Therapeutical boarding schools for children and teenager, where it is very often COMMON to deprive kids and teenagers under 18 years old from basic things like food and sleep and literature exept of the 12 step/Blue Book literature from AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) - they are even exposed to horrible psychological and physical violance by their own peers who try to "earn" their way out by this. These schools are still working on the principles of straight.inc, an organization which was closed down years ago because of child abuse.

http://www.surviving...ncthemovie.com/ (its about straight.inc - but derivates of these schools are still existing in US)

Some views about different concepts of addiction:
http://www.psycholog...ddiction-worlds

I could rant on and on - but I am afraid I open up a can of worms and it would be too much OT.

I do think that this view of addiction in our western world and especially the USA which is imho dominated by the temperance/abstinence movement (hence US drinking age 21) - the tendency to "punish" the addicted/or even drinker/user and push the person into the addicted corner forever was also a problem for Whitney Houston among many others. Plus the gossip rags and mags and blogs posting stuff about her or her child without researching if it was true or not.

Many people are still judging her and can not let her rest in peace. They need to say : HA!! Didn't I tell you so?!

The world and especially the USA can not forgive its "sweetheart" Whitney having been addicted to something IN THE PAST. They couldnt even forgive her when she was sober again. She wasnt allowed to be her normal self "crazy" Whitney again. They expected her to go into the basement for laughing. But even then they might have called her depressive and ADDICTED. And when she was dancing, having fun; Crazy and ADDICTED. Thats what i often read in this stupid comments below some of these gossip blogs: No flags halfmast because she was ADDICTED - who cares about her charity work, her musical legacy - no all this is blotted out by having been ADDICTED. ADDICTED ADDICTED ADDICTED. Some people cant think further than this. They still think Whitney Houston was their property like the house they live in. But she was a mother first, a friend a sister a daughter...a sensitive and sensible human being who was more or less hunted down by media and society who didn't care about her dignity or privacy.

I do not know the cause of her death. Sooner or later there will be the toxicology report. Even when there were drugs found - she was prescribed some, and she might have suffered from side effects, especially as xanax might cause you loss of control and things like that, but even that is all speculation now: http://www.huffingto...r=Health%20News

So why judge her? Tear her down? I just hope she is up there in heaven and has finally found her inner peace. And I hope for her daughter and Cissy that they can find a way to cope.

[MLIYL]

clemsonfight, on 08 March 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Well, NeverStandAlone we don't KNOW what she did in terms of her recovery. Should she have been in those places? Maybe not. Do we know what she did when she was there? Nope. We just got a few stories and a few sweaty pictures (and you can have a good clean sober time and get sweaty as hell having fun, I do it all the time).

The simple fact is, if Whitney was really REALLY doing handstands by the pool or getting drunk and yelling in the lobby, why don't we have any videos of it? Like really, this is the era of smartphones. Any video can be on youtube/facebook like THAT. Hell even crappy flip phones have got cameras and some basic internet access now. You're telling me these people told tmz about her being drunk as hell in the lobby but there isn't a SINGLE video out there in THIS era? Yeah, like I believe that.

Right??? How is it someone snapped a pic of her relaxing normally by the pool, but not one of her supposedly doing hand stands? Wouldn't that be something they'd want to capture more? That's because it's all hearsay and probably never happened. Show us the receipts.

[truthspeaker06]

NippyFanNy779, on 08 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

you know the more I think about the results that people are waiting for it can't help but weigh on me that ...its not going to bring her back. No matter what took this angel from us she isn't coming back. We can hash out the details til the end of time but our Whitney, our Greatest Love of All will still be gone.

I just don't feel like I can focus that much energy on why, I'm still trying to cope with the fact that she is.

Couldn't of said it ANY better sis.

[Petra]

i really don't get this whole alcohol talk..i mean, she clearly and with no hesitation admitted to being addicted to certain stuff..hell, she even went as far as telling you how to lace the damn thing! so what more damage could she have caused by admitting addiction to alcohol? none! she said alcohol wasn't her problem and i don't see why is that so hard to believe..especially because she got all her credibility back with admitting being a drug addict, after all those years of denying..it's like people want and need her to be addicted, to relapse, to act crazy and what not..

every single time she laughed a second too long, she was back doing drugs..every single time she danced, she was back doing drugs..every single time she looked at someone the wrong way, she was back on drugs..every single time she used a funny damn word, she was back on drugs..so i ask the world, WHAT THE HELL?

Edited by Petra, 08 March 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[whitwhit1fan22]

Gotta love lisa for that ending part lmao.... Listen if watch the Oprah interview she said that she might have a drink once in awhile .. So don't think she went back to drugs she said dont do her like that but of course this is Whitney Houston so they want it to be everything there saying it is ....

[liz06]

Lisa, on 08 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

During the Oprah interview, Whitney said she was not an alcoholic. She freely admitted to her addictions, but she denied that. She had no reason to lie. I believe the words out of her own mouth.

Regardless of what the results show, even if it turns out that there was alcohol in her system, it still doesn't make her an alcoholic. I'm tired of people like Dr. Drew and various newspapers acting like she was an alcoholic when SHE SAID she was not.

Peace out.

This! I'm so tired of people calling her an alcoholic or had an alcohol addiction. She didn't. Just like she said on Oprah. And I believe her.

[Nippyislove]

I think she never had an alcohol addiction and she got rid of drug abuse after the divorce from Bobby Brown. She admitted that she was taking drugs to hide the pain as she said in the Oprah interview, so after the divorce she had the chance to recover and she did. She never looked happier and better than in the recent years.

[MLIYL]

Petra, on 08 March 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

i really don't get this whole alcohol talk..i mean, she clearly and with no hesitation admitted to being addicted to certain stuff..hell, she even went as far as telling you how to lace the damn thing! so what more damage could she have caused by admitting addiction to alcohol? none! she said alcohol wasn't her problem and i don't see why is that so hard to believe..especially because she got all her credibility back with admitting being a drug addict, after all those years of denying..it's like people want and need her to be addicted, to relapse, to act crazy and what not..

Because these so-called "professionals" are stuck on the whole part of her being an addict and stuck on saying that she should never even have a sip of alcohol because it's another so-called vice that could lead to other things again. Sure it's true for some people, but NOT ALL.

I have past drug addicts in my family that will have an occasional drink at an event, does that mean they go back to using drugs? No. Does that mean that now they're addicted to alcohol to curb their urge for drugs? No. It means they're having one damn drink and then they go home and still don't touch any drugs or all of a sudden become an alcoholic.

It all depends on the person, and their mind set. Dr. Drew and all those other people need to quit lumping every person together that has had an addiction because I know first hand they are not all the same. It really, truly depends on the person.

I'm not saying it was right or wrong for Whitney to go out to a few clubs in Hollywood and have some drinks, we don't know how much she drank, we don't know what went on in there, but we do know Whitney was never a big drinker even during her worst times, and we do know she was NOT drinking the day of Superbowl while in the hotel lounge area watching Madonna's performance, even though people in her entourage were drinking (Ray Watson had a beer), she was not. If she all of a sudden had some bad drinking problem, she'd have a drink in her hand at any chance she could, especially while watching something like the Superbowl.

[NeverStandAlone]

ALCOHOL IS A DRUG. The amount of denial that exists in the world regarding this topic baffles me. It is this denial that will lead to the death of so many.

If your husband came home from rehab for an addiction to pain killers, would you take him to a happy hour and celebrate? Of course not. Let’s be real.

I am not judging Whitney or any person who is or has been addicted to anything. Calling someone out on their behavior and saying, I want you to get healthy and live is the opposite of judging.

I can’t take this anymore. None of this will bring Whitney back.

None of us were there. I assume none of us know the Houston or Drinkard families personally. It’s all a matter of opinion. I can’t take the negativity anymore.

There’s no need to vilify someone simply because they disagree with you.

And for all the people who discount rehab or any twelve-step program: Where would you rather have your loved one? In a so-called “cult” called rehab or lying dead on the street?

I wish you all the best but after six years, I am officially finished with this website and moving on with my life.

[Every1lovesNippy]

NeverStandAlone, on 08 March 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

ALCOHOL IS A DRUG. The amount of denial that exists in the world regarding this topic baffles me. It is this denial that will lead to the death of so many.

If your husband came home from rehab for an addiction to pain killers, would you take him to a happy hour and celebrate? Of course not. Let’s be real.

I am not judging Whitney or any person who is or has been addicted to anything. Calling someone out on their behavior and saying, I want you to get healthy and live is the opposite of judging.

I can’t take this anymore. None of this will bring Whitney back.

None of us were there. I assume none of us know the Houston or Drinkard families personally. It’s all a matter of opinion. I can’t take the negativity anymore.

There’s no need to vilify someone simply because they disagree with you.

And for all the people who discount rehab or any twelve-step program: Where would you rather have your loved one? In a so-called “cult” called rehab or lying dead on the street?

I wish you all the best but after six years, I am officially finished with this website and moving on with my life.

Nobody is vilifying you, but you are being called out for being overly simplistic and jumping to conclusions.

The fact is that everything is a chemical, or "drug." By your definition, if some chemical can be harmful to some people, it must be avoided by everyone else. The problem with your logic is that everything we consume has a chemical formula, and if we consume too much, we can die, just like the stuipd woman who died of H2O poisoning after consuming 2 gallons of water. So should we stop drinking water because some stupid people will die from drinking too much of it? The problem is that lazy thinkers like to lump everything together, and the lazy, unethical, TV "medical experts" who are willing to compromise the ethics of their profession by trying to diagnose strangers on TV and put everything into a soundbite.

I don't know why whitney died. And I won't know until the coroner releases his report. But I do know that mis-information and over-simplification, and lack of scientific understanding, can and does cause as much harm to addicts as the drugs they consume. And as deeply as you feel about the issue, I feel the same way about people who spread pseudo-scientific clap-trap all over the airwaves as if it is true. Half-truths and mis-information are dangerous, period. There are many things one can be addicted to, and many causes of the various forms of addiction; to suggest that they can all be subject to a "one size fits all" form of treatment is irresponsible in the highest degree.

And, you are right, Whitney is dead, and none of this arguing will bring her back, but if maybe we can stop some of the dangeous and irresponsible speculation, then something good wil have come of this tragedy.

Peace to you.

[Petra]

NeverStandAlone, on 08 March 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

ALCOHOL IS A DRUG. The amount of denial that exists in the world regarding this topic baffles me. It is this denial that will lead to the death of so many.

If your husband came home from rehab for an addiction to pain killers, would you take him to a happy hour and celebrate? Of course not. Let’s be real.

I am not judging Whitney or any person who is or has been addicted to anything. Calling someone out on their behavior and saying, I want you to get healthy and live is the opposite of judging.

I can’t take this anymore. None of this will bring Whitney back.

None of us were there. I assume none of us know the Houston or Drinkard families personally. It’s all a matter of opinion. I can’t take the negativity anymore.

There’s no need to vilify someone simply because they disagree with you.

And for all the people who discount rehab or any twelve-step program: Where would you rather have your loved one? In a so-called “cult” called rehab or lying dead on the street?

I wish you all the best but after six years, I am officially finished with this website and moving on with my life.

what exactly is your problem? i'm sorry, i'm really trying to understand..you came here and started talking about how she should never have been inside of a bar or a night club because she was a recovering addict, and how alcohol is a drug, and how an addict can't stop at one drink, etc..yes, that's true for alcohol addicts..how do you know she was an alcoholic? did she tell you so? she went inside of a bar, well she must have gotten herself both high and drunk beyond her mind..yeah, that's gotta be it..i'm sorry, but reading your posts made me think of all those ignorant people we've been seeing all over tv who just followed up on whatever the media served them and took it for the only possible explanation and just went with it..you're a fan, act like it..

Edited by Petra, 08 March 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Nippyislove]

The world is not black and white, its not that easy. Many drug abusers do indeed recover. Many do not. You can not always predict who will recover and who not. That is life. Life is a risk.
Regarding drug treatment: There are treatment options beyond 12 step rehabs and "anonyomous..." self help groups. But that is not enough promoted, not known by many, especially in the US many think AA is the only way, as they are so dominating

In my opinion Dr. Drew is acting somehow weird. I do not think its okay to drag addicted persons into the spotlight for treatment reasons or to discuss their problems on TV. Addiction treatment is no excuse for exposing people in a vulnerable state to the public. And addiction is no excuse for abusing a child in institutions (hence straight etc.) or making (often young) adults believe they are helpless against their demons (hence : admitting being helpless over the drug) and calling themselves the name of their malady (being addicted as being your main identity, instead being a human/artist/mummy, daddy....as a reason to fight for escaping addiction). Many addicted persons need treatment of their underlying problems and empowerment and/or a change in their environment ( Hence: Whitneys pain - whitneys divorce) - or simply getting older and grow out of risky behaviour (having a child/family/job after graduating and having done binge drinking in college). Many just need a good kick in the a... as a wake up call - be it from doctors, family or friends. Some can t stop at all. There is no one size fits all and there will never be. We are all individuals.

Some will never be able to drink again, they must learn how to abstain, others might recover and will be able to drink in a normal way again. Others are functional addicts for decades and no one ever guesses this person is heavly addicted. Its not always either addiction and ending up dead in the streets or abstinence and living and being happy and functional. Live is colorful, grey, complicated, its often in between theses extremes. Life is a risk. There is no guarantee. This is what I think about this topic.

[Lisa]

NeverStandAlone, on 08 March 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

ALCOHOL IS A DRUG. The amount of denial that exists in the world regarding this topic baffles me. It is this denial that will lead to the death of so many.

If your husband came home from rehab for an addiction to pain killers, would you take him to a happy hour and celebrate? Of course not. Let’s be real.

I am not judging Whitney or any person who is or has been addicted to anything. Calling someone out on their behavior and saying, I want you to get healthy and live is the opposite of judging.

I can’t take this anymore. None of this will bring Whitney back.

None of us were there. I assume none of us know the Houston or Drinkard families personally. It’s all a matter of opinion. I can’t take the negativity anymore.

There’s no need to vilify someone simply because they disagree with you.

And for all the people who discount rehab or any twelve-step program: Where would you rather have your loved one? In a so-called “cult” called rehab or lying dead on the street?

I wish you all the best but after six years, I am officially finished with this website and moving on with my life.

How exactly were you attacked here? If you want to leave, just leave. Why do you need to post some self-serving statement before you walk out the door? Your actions are the height of immaturity. I've closed your account. Congratulations!

Lots of things in the world are addictive. Having an addiction to drugs does not make Whitney an alcoholic too. If that were the case, there wouldn't be an AA for just alcoholism. All alcoholics would be drug addicts too. Addiction doesn't work that way.

In this country, there is far less stigma for alcoholism than drug abuse. Whitney had nothing further to lose by admitting an addiction to alcohol. She denied it. If you choose to believe she was lying, that's your opinion. If other people choose to believe that she was telling the truth, just like how she went into detail about her drug addiction, that's their opinion. No one said you couldn't have an opinion. They just DISAGREED with your opinion.