254 replies to this topic

[CoNcLusIveTrUthZ]

Lisa, on 25 March 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

I understand that everyone needs to do what they must in order to cope, and we all need a safe place in order to express ourselves, but I feel like we're getting further and further away from reality, moving toward theories of our own, with little or no facts, just to make ourselves feel better. It's getting a bit irrational, and it's making me uncomfortable to read this thread. I didn't really feel this way until just now, over the past few pages. I've seen this happen at MJ boards, and I don't want to see that happen here. MJ fans can be very over the top, and I don't want to be surrounded by that. I need to cope too. Where am I supposed to go if I don't even feel comfortable in my own home, which I personally maintain?

I don't plan on rehasing this over and over. I just spoke my mind upon learning about Rafel Van Exel potentially providing cocaine to Whitney. No matter what scenario you look at there are many odd things to this story and how it played out and who was involved. Regardless of any of it I am fully aware of the potential for looking into things that may not be there but however there really is no facts to support Whitney using again prior to her death without reasonable doubt. Chemcial substances can be ingested and detected in a report is all I'm saying. It doesn't make sense that se was using "chronically" up untill her death. And truth be told I don't feel better thinking something evil and twisted. Just more confused.

None of it makes any sense.

I'm sorry. I think as a collective group though we should leave it at that. It's been said, let it go. I'm not about to dis-respect Lisa on this site and I said that from the get- go so let's all as one team having acknowledged the thought, let it go.

I do however regret now not contacting you after making the post. I was sending you a text before I changed my mind because I figured "She's prolly at work" and didn't wanna bother you for anything.

[Every1lovesNippy]

Lisa, on 25 March 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

I understand that everyone needs to do what they must in order to cope, and we all need a safe place in order to express ourselves, but I feel like we're getting further and further away from reality, moving toward theories of our own, with little or no facts, just to make ourselves feel better. It's getting a bit irrational, and it's making me uncomfortable to read this thread. I didn't really feel this way until just now, over the past few pages. I've seen this happen at MJ boards, and I don't want to see that happen here. MJ fans can be very over the top, and I don't want to be surrounded by that. I need to cope too. Where am I supposed to go if I don't even feel comfortable in my own home, which I personally maintain?

Lisa, I personally am not into the crazy conspiracy theories. But I also don't think that it's right to say that, since Whitney had used drugs in the past, we will just leave it at that and not investigate, question, and hold everyone who is involved in the crime responsible. There are so many conflicting pieces of evidence, even in the official reports. And, there are just too many times when the life of an African American is discounted, when, as to persons who have led less than perfect lives, we make assumptions without ever bothering to get to the truth. It is a crime to sell or peddle drugs, so why is it o.k. to sell or peddle them to Whitney Houston? Why? Because she was an addict? I am not saying this is how fans feel, but, for the life of me, I cannot understand why the police are not looking deeply into this and trying to resolve all the discrepancies. There are just so many unresolved questions, so many discrepancies, and that, coupled with the fact that, in life, Whitney was so forgiving, makes it a bitter pill to swallow that those who enabled and supplied Whitney with illegal drugs would get off without shame, without having to admit guilt, with impunity.

That said, I understand that confronting these open questions can be difficult. It hurts to think that people Whitney trusted may not have served her well. It hurts to think that people who harmed her may go unpunished. But for many fans, it hurts to think that Whitney's family or close asociates may not have served her well; and it hurts even more to dwell on the circumstances of her death. After all, nothing will bring her back. So, is there perhaps a way to create a thread for people who want to follow the results of the investigation to continue their discussion and questions, and to allow others who need to have closure and peace of mind to opt out? I do not know how to create new threads or how to split stuff off, so I am hoping you understand what I am asking. In other words, can you create two separate threads, appropriately labeled, so that people who want to discuss the ongoing investigation can participate, but people who want to move on can avoid the discussion?

I am just asking, no pressure. I barely know how these forums work. Do what you think is best.

[Lisa]

CoNcLusIveTrUthZ, on 25 March 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Lisa, on 25 March 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

I understand that everyone needs to do what they must in order to cope, and we all need a safe place in order to express ourselves, but I feel like we're getting further and further away from reality, moving toward theories of our own, with little or no facts, just to make ourselves feel better. It's getting a bit irrational, and it's making me uncomfortable to read this thread. I didn't really feel this way until just now, over the past few pages. I've seen this happen at MJ boards, and I don't want to see that happen here. MJ fans can be very over the top, and I don't want to be surrounded by that. I need to cope too. Where am I supposed to go if I don't even feel comfortable in my own home, which I personally maintain?

I don't plan on rehasing this over and over. I just spoke my mind upon learning about Rafel Van Exel potentially providing cocaine to Whitney. No matter what scenario you look at there are many odd things to this story and how it played out and who was involved. Regardless of any of it I am fully aware of the potential for looking into things that may not be there but however there really is no facts to support Whitney using again prior to her death without reasonable doubt. Chemcial substances can be ingested and detected in a report is all I'm saying. It doesn't make sense that se was using "chronically" up untill her death. And truth be told I don't feel better thinking something evil and twisted. Just more confused.

None of it makes any sense.

I'm sorry. I think as a collective group though we should leave it at that. It's been said, let it go. I'm not about to dis-respect Lisa on this site and I said that from the get- go so let's all as one team having acknowledged the thought, let it go.

I do however regret now not contacting you after making the post. I was sending you a text before I changed my mind because I figured "She's prolly at work" and didn't wanna bother you for anything.

I'm not asking or telling anyone to stop discussing this -- you should not stop discussing, and you don't need to be checking with me before you post. I just think we're kind of spinning into a really bad direction, because some of us are having a very hard time accepting Whitney's condition. She was a human being, and it is indeed possible for all the negative and positive things to co-exist. It is indeed possible to be heading in the right direction, and be happy, but still have an addiction. She was working on it, but she ran out of time. It was a day by day process. There's no telling when or how she may have relapsed, and no one forced her to do anything. Do the drugs really make a difference that we need to make excuses for her, or to create explanations when there are none? Unless the full report comes out in two weeks and indicates something wildly different, the facts are that what they are. The fact that she had the drug in her system does not make this worse, and it does not change anything. And it doesn't change who she was, or what she accomplished, or what she meant to anyone. So we don't need to make excuses, or hunt down drug dealers, or blame things on her family -- who have been put through hell far worse than us. It was an accident. It's a tragedy.

And the last thing I want right now is a PM or a phone call. I think I may go to the Bodyguard screening by myself. I'm tired of theories and media spin. I'm going to watch Whitney in the theater in peace, probably alone. And if we're going to turn into some wacky MJ-style forum, then I need to do something else.

[Alexandros]

Lisa, on 25 March 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

I understand that everyone needs to do what they must in order to cope, and we all need a safe place in order to express ourselves, but I feel like we're getting further and further away from reality, moving toward theories of our own, with little or no facts, just to make ourselves feel better. It's getting a bit irrational, and it's making me uncomfortable to read this thread. I didn't really feel this way until just now, over the past few pages. I've seen this happen at MJ boards, and I don't want to see that happen here. MJ fans can be very over the top, and I don't want to be surrounded by that. I need to cope too. Where am I supposed to go if I don't even feel comfortable in my own home, which I personally maintain?

Agree... Going wild with conspiracy theories won't bring Whitney back...
In MJ's case his doctor was a suspect from day 1, whereas in Whitney's case the police ruled no foul play from day 1...
Now if they find who gave her the cocaine that contributed to her death, we'll see what happens...

[Mr Jace]

It's just....It's just that....sigh....I believed her. I really believed her.

We were standing up for her, defending her 'til we were blue in the face. Meanwhile, she was probably off somewhere, laughing at us...

[Lisa]

Mr Jace, on 25 March 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

It's just....It's just that....sigh....I believed her. I really believed her.

We were standing up for her, defending her 'til we were blue in the face. Meanwhile, she was probably off somewhere, laughing at us...

I don't think she was dishonest, and I certainly don't think she was laughing at us. This wasn't a game. Whitney was very upfront and specific about her problem, and she really didn't have to be. She didn't owe us any explanation whatsoever -- her personal life was really none of our business. She made a serious effort to stop, and part of that often involves relapsing. She really put it all out there in order to try to get over it, and there's nothing more that we could expect from her. If this hadn't happened now, then it's possible she could have gotten past it, recovered her health to a significant extent, and could have lived a healthy life for a number of years. But now we'll never know.

[Nik31]

Mr Jace, on 25 March 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

It's just....It's just that....sigh....I believed her. I really believed her.

We were standing up for her, defending her 'til we were blue in the face. Meanwhile, she was probably off somewhere, laughing at us...

I understand your anger and I know you know that´s not true.
She was living her life the best she could. And yet that wasn´t enough for so many people.
People she didn´t even know but who were able to make it impossible for her to live the life the way she wanted it.

[salute88]

Lisa, on 25 March 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

I understand that everyone needs to do what they must in order to cope, and we all need a safe place in order to express ourselves, but I feel like we're getting further and further away from reality, moving toward theories of our own, with little or no facts, just to make ourselves feel better. It's getting a bit irrational, and it's making me uncomfortable to read this thread. I didn't really feel this way until just now, over the past few pages. I've seen this happen at MJ boards, and I don't want to see that happen here. MJ fans can be very over the top, and I don't want to be surrounded by that. I need to cope too. Where am I supposed to go if I don't even feel comfortable in my own home, which I personally maintain?

Lisa I am sorry that you feel uncomfortable here. That really sucks and there is no solution. I understand the frustration at the speculation but these are Whitney fans for crying out loud...we EXIST to speculate with little facts! This is what the members on the board have always done about albums, movies, etc. It's the same people doing the same things. I don't think speculations makes anyone feel better, but talking about it does. I am not sure what i believe, but what I KNOW is that Whitney is not here anymore and no matter why that happen she won't be back. I am at peace with that. Everyone, however, is not me. People really LOVE her and with all of these unanswered questions, to expect them to respond with anything less than the same assumptions, speculations, etc they resorted to s fans is absurd! We get it, Whit was human but so are we and I think everyone is just showing their humanity..idk...I am going to leave it alone and just mind my business.

Mr Jace, on 25 March 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

It's just....It's just that....sigh....I believed her. I really believed her.

We were standing up for her, defending her 'til we were blue in the face. Meanwhile, she was probably off somewhere, laughing at us...

I highly doubt that...even if she was using drugs I doubt she was jovial about it. I don't think Whitney wanted to be dishonest (if that was the case), I think she just didn't feel like she could be upfront with people who were the reason she felt so insecure and judged.

[Zolas]

I know I am done with this board. I'll check back for news every now and then but I won't be active for a while.

This was a place of comfort. Now it is just bringing me down. I will be happier not reading here. I'll find another way of dealing with my loss.

Salute!

[Carmen]

Zolas, on 25 March 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

I know I am done with this board. I'll check back for news every now and then but I won't be active for a while.

This was a place of comfort. Now it is just bringing me down. I will be happier not reading here. I'll find another way of dealing with my loss.

Salute!

Think it again, Bart, please! I get to know you as a very kind and helpful member, who where there since I became a member. You belong here, surely I would miss you and your posts.
I also don't post as often as before, because sometimes it's hard to face the reality that Whitney is gone and because of that our life and this place will never be the same again.
This is now a hard period for all of us, the coroner's report just came out and each member have their own opinions, we cope with it differently but it will calm down slowly. At least I hope so.

[Carmen]

Mr Jace, on 25 March 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

It's just....It's just that....sigh....I believed her. I really believed her.

We were standing up for her, defending her 'til we were blue in the face. Meanwhile, she was probably off somewhere, laughing at us...

We all believed in her, that's why we're her biggest fans. That's what a real fan should do. I couldn't support a person in entertainment business like I supported Whitney, if I didn't have a connection to the personality. I put my trust in her just like all of us here. And I think she tried her best, she did so many changes in her life, she wanted to come back. We were so proud of her. And no, I don't think she was laughing....my opinion is that she was grateful for her fanbase that we were never left. So sad that her efforts, and the love of her close family, friends and fans still were not enough to save her.

[PontusFromSweden]

This says it all and should be the end of everything going on right now.

"...I Ain´t Blaming Nobody If I Ain´t Got My Stuff Worked Out...."

[John-John]

I understand Lisa & I apologize. It won't be a problem from me again.

[Petra]

I also apologize for going too far.

Jace, don't say that. We all believed her and I am positive she was telling the truth in the Oprah interview. Addicts sometimes relapse, no matter how hard they try. And she was doing her best, I'm sure of it.

[remamamama]

If I went too far with posting that article, I owe everyone an apology. It wasn't my intention to blame anyone. I've accepted the fact that she isn't perfect long ago, even before she left us. I became her fan during her darkest period, so I never had to go through that period from 2001 to 2006 and witness the downfall of a perfect woman who once had that perfect, angelic voice. Perhaps that has allowed me to accept the fact that she's never been perfect, just as we all are.

I'm glad I was able to see her slowly regain her motivation and make positive changes in her life: rehab, divorce, taking a break to take care of her daughter, new album, movie comeback....Even though she never fully conquered her addiction, at least she's now truly free.